FOREVER MOTORING: Detroit, Cars and Climate Change with Autoextremist Peter DeLorenzo in conversation with philosopher Andrea Hiott

In this episode of Forever Motoring, host and philosopher Andrea Hiott welcomes Peter De Lorenzo, famously known as the Auto Extremist. Peter is recognized for his influential and candid blog, running since 1999, which has significantly impacted automotive journalism. They discuss Peter's upbringing in Detroit during the golden age of the automobile industry, his deep-rooted love for cars, his experiences with the notable figures of GM, and his insightful column on what its like to live in Detroit and the recent restoration of Michigan Central Station. Peter shares his thoughts on the evolution of the automobile industry, the challenges it faces, and his belief in the enduring spirit of true believers in the automotive world. Tune in for a compelling conversation about the intersection of passion, technology, and the future of motoring. Peter describes the future as needing a kaleidoscope of power for our vehicles.

Please join our new Patreon and support a community that loves its vehicles and its earth.

00:00 Introduction to Peter DeLorenzo

01:21 Peter's Early Life and Love for Cars

04:11 The Golden Age of Detroit

09:06 Planned Obsolescence and Detroit's Contradictions

16:32 The Resilience of Detroit

18:04 The True Believers of the Auto Industry

19:59 The Impact of World War II on Detroit

23:39 The Evolution of Auto Extremist

25:44 The Inertia of Social Media and Information Overload

26:40 The True Believers and the Love for Automobiles

27:49 The Freedom and Experience of Driving

29:46 The Impact of Technology on Travel and Presence

35:32 Environmental Challenges and the Future of Mobility

40:45 The Role of True Believers in Driving Change

43:27 The Birth and Impact of Auto Extremist

48:40 Reflections on a Career and Legacy

53:55 Forever Motoring: A Vision for the Future

#detroit #autoindustry #driving

The Autoextemist

On Detroit, the column we discuss.

"We’re a state of mind that’s filled with countless contradictions, and our great history is offset by some lurid realities.

We’ve contributed much to the American fabric, yet we have a historical propensity to make things brutally tough on our day-to-day well-being.

We’ve brought this country a sound like no other and a gritty, gutty context that’s second to none, yet we’ve created countless problems for ourselves, most all of them self-inflicted.

We created the “Arsenal of Democracy” when our country needed it most, yet we allowed a movement based on fairness to become a disease based on entitlement and rancor.

We’ve contributed much to this nation's progress and standing, yet we can’t seem to get out of our own way at times, which is infuriating and debilitating.

But thankfully, the story never really ends for Detroit. At least not yet anyway. We’re still standing, warts and glaring faults and all. And you can forget the recent glory stories about our renaissance because we don’t really need ‘em to validate us.

We know who we are. And we know that the perception isn’t often favorable. And we get that. But still there’s an exuberance and spirit here that no interloper of a CEO can ever capture.

It’s a Detroit thing, or if you must, a Dee-troit thing, as Bob Seger so aptly put it. And we’re proud of what that means.

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Transcript

Peter and the Autoextremist: a kaleidoscope of power for our vehicles.

Andrea Hiott: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Forever Motoring. I'm so glad you're here. Today we have Peter de Lorenzo, who you probably know as the auto extremist. From his very popular blog, which has been running since 1999. A real historical archive at this point. And it is incredibly popular and influential. It's really changed the way journalism is done. 

As we talk about a bit here. It came at just the right moment and with just the right voice. As the internet was hitting and, before blogs were a thing, if you can remember back that far, he's really followed the industry through a lot of ups and downs. And he's sort of known as the watchdog of the auto industry or the truth talker. His motto is this high-octane truth. When you read it, it really feels sharp. He's really [00:01:00] Razor-sharp at times. But always direct and truthful. He speaks about the elephant in the room, that no one wants to talk about and he talks about that here. And a lot of the pushback that he's gotten over the years. How it's not been the easiest of things to do, but something he felt needed to be done and that. He was motivated to put into the world. 

 In this conversation, we talk about Detroit. The company town. And we talk about. Peter's love of cars. He was actually born during the golden age. Of the automobile industry in Detroit, he saw it all happen. All the big names of the car industry world we're in his neighborhood around his house. He really grew up with it from a very early age. And he knows the city and he's recently written a column about the city, which I'll link to in about the new restoration of the miss Michigan central station there that Bill Ford Jr. Ushered in. It's a really good read I'll I'll link to it, but we [00:02:00] talk about growing up in Detroit, what Detroit has meant and does mean. We talk about his love of cars. 

 His, his brother is a racer and his whole life is just entangled with the automobile. We talk about how important that's been for us as Americans. Um, and for him and for the world, For the first half and we talk about road trips and speed and power and all these themes that goes so well with automobiles. 

But then we do. Wonder, uh, what are we talking about here when there's so many challenges relative to the car industry itself to the environment, to how we're going to proceed forward. So we talk about that a bit in the last half of what all that means and what forever motoring means and how we can hold both these things at the same time, because it can feel a bit difficult to love cars so much. 

And then. know there's all these challenges. So it's a, it's a wonderful conversation. He says some really important [00:03:00] moving things, and I hope that. You will listen and, have a look back at his work. And all the many years that he's been riding. It's a beautiful archive. And I just want to say thanks to Peter for this talk and for his perspective. 

And I hope you're all doing well out there and all right, let's go. 

Hello, Peter. It's so wonderful to meet you. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. 

Peter DeLorenzo: Hi, Andrea. It's a pleasure to be here. 

Andrea Hiott: So many people have said your name as someone they would like to be on the show. So I hope everyone is happy now that you are here. I was a little intimidated, to be honest, to talk to you because you just know so much about cars and about Detroit and about this whole history, so I'm just gonna say right off the bat, I can't possibly keep up So I'm not even going to really try.

I'm going to try to, what I'm really interested in is what you just wrote about, which is Detroit. I'm interested in many things, but this [00:04:00] last piece of yours. So to get us going, I always ask about a moment in your life when you remember being moved. So what's an early moment for you?

Peter DeLorenzo: Well, I grew up in an automotive household. My father was the second person to hold the title of vice president of public relations for General Motors. And it was right in the beginning of GM's heyday. Wow. So I grew up with the legends of Detroit over at the house and my driveway.

It was it was a charmed childhood and 

Andrea Hiott: the golden age of Detroit. I've heard you. What do you mean? Who are these people? The can you remember anyone? 

Peter DeLorenzo: Bill Mitchell the famous GM design chief lived a block away. 

And I ended up. Getting to know him, even my dad, of course, knew him, but I ended up getting to know him and he would offer me rides in [00:05:00] GM's latest concept cars that he would have brought home, delivered to his house on a Friday, on a summer day, and I, I rode in every famous GM concept car there was back then.

Including my all time favorite, which was the 1959. Corvette Stingray Racer, it was a concept car that Mitchell raced. And now it has been restored by General Motors. It's probably the first car that put me over the edge, so to speak.

And I had a go kart that I I bought and restored to top notch shape. I painted it metallic orange and I called it the Orange Juicer Mark 1. It terrorized, terrorized my neighborhood, me and my buddies. It would go 65 miles an hour, which was clocked by my brother. 

Andrea Hiott: Whoa, that's really [00:06:00] fast.

Peter DeLorenzo: And then my brother, older brother got into cars seriously, and he ended up being one of the top Corvette racers of all time.

And so, it was just a nonstop immersion in cars all the time. So, 

Andrea Hiott: yeah, as, as it was all coming into being, this golden age, this time period, I've tried to think about it and what it was really like and you you were there for it. And, that's interesting with the racing, too, and how it's all tied up with speed.

So you were a little boy, during this time, and you're becoming a teenager and so on, but, so for you, this is an immersion, but to me, when I look back at that time, it feels very idealistic, a time of not only excitement about this amazing thing called the car, which we now entered a whole new world after World War II and after America sort of being their best in a way in that war. It wasn't as idealistic as it feels like to me.

 I feel like when I think about cars in history, we're trying to get that spirit again or those people again. I know it was your childhood, but [00:07:00] yeah,, it was an exuberant 

Peter DeLorenzo: time. And America was on an upward trajectory. There was no doubt about that. Anything was possible and General Motors at the time was made up of divisions and each division general manager basically was the head of his own country in charge of production and manufacturing.

And then Bill Mitchell lorded over design, but these these were giants in the business that roamed the earth around that time. And it was just a different time and a different era. There was no limits put forth. It was what can we do better? There was the planned obsolescence. So every fall there were major design changes by all the car companies on all their models.

When, when you think about that today, it's, it's mind boggling because there were no computers or anything like that, but every fall there were new models. [00:08:00] And you know, people car dealers would pay for their windows over and people would You know, it would, it was a big deal when they had the announcement day and people would go to the dealers and it was just a different time in a different era.

It was, I was fortunate to grow up in it. And I don't think it can be over idealized at this point because it was truly special. 

Andrea Hiott: Was your father happy with his working job in those early years, would you say? Yeah, well, he 

Peter DeLorenzo: started in journalism and he ended up when he went to GM to run PR, he He incorporated a lot of the modern PR techniques that are used by corporations today.

So he, he enjoyed it. He wasn't into the car scene as much as My brother and I were, but he, you know, we had people like Ed Cole and Bunky Knits and, and Zara Duntov and all these legends of the business, you know, would be over and it [00:09:00] was just it was different sounds like 

Andrea Hiott: a Hollywood movie or something.

But you know, you talked about planned obsolescence and. It feels like that time, I do feel like it's an idealistic time. Was it a kind of innocent time, too? Because something like planned obsolescence is not a good thing, we have to say, right? In these days where, 

Peter DeLorenzo: or maybe you think it is, but yeah.

In this era we live in, I mean. That was Alfred Sloan, part of Alfred Sloan, the head of General Motors's philosophy to keep people wanting more, and he had the latter of the divisions, which started out with Chevrolet, then Pontiac, and then Buick, or then Oldsmobile, then Buick, then Cadillac.

And it was like, you know, you start off in a Chevrolet and in your younger years and eventually you rise up to a Cadillac. Yeah, was planned obsolescence a good thing? Not really. It was a calculated business move, but it certainly [00:10:00] spurred on the business and everyone participated forward. Chrysler and of course General Motors.

Andrea Hiott: Yeah, I think this reminds me of something you say in the last piece, which I'll link to from not very long ago, about when you're describing Detroit. You talk about the Michigan Central Station, which I wonder what that was like when you were a kid too, but also you talk about, I think it's in that article, where you say Detroit is basically a contradiction or always sort of living as a contradiction.

So this planned, this, this time period where it's very exciting. It's very idealistic. There's a lot of activity, emotion, beauty, creation, work, on one hand. And then on the other hand, you have these beginnings of things like trying to keep up with the Joneses, which goes in a route that's not good or planned obsolescence.

So it's not one or the other, I guess. Right. But 

Peter DeLorenzo: yeah, everything's intertwined. I mean, that period for General Motors from the late fifties to the [00:11:00] mid seventies was their heyday, but it was also, you have to remember that it was the 60s were a turbulent societal time, lots of rancor and division and societal conflict.

And it was like everything all at once. Nothing was I mean, in terms of the business, it may have been idealistic, but certainly the problems of society couldn't be sugar coated. I mean, it was a difficult time too. 

Andrea Hiott: Yeah. And a lot of that was that pushback against trying to pretend like everything is okay or feeling like you should keep up with the Joneses and then realizing.

Actually, this is not, I'm not very happy here. And the kind of, the difference between the facade that you're putting out to the world and the way it is affecting the inner real life that you're, you're living, which kind of speaks to Detroit in a way too, doesn't it? Weird. Yeah. Detroit's 

Peter DeLorenzo: it's always been [00:12:00] a it's, it's been an exuberant town at times, but it's been a very difficult time town.

We have a tendency to take two steps forward and three back. We have a tendency to make our own lives miserable here for various reasons, and there's kind of tradition of that. You know, this, this resurrection of the, the Michigan the Central Station which had fallen in disrepair for decades, and it was a commendable thing by Bill Ford Jr.

I mean, it could have been torn down. And matter of fact, they said once they got into it, they realized it was about three years from being totally, 

Happy to come down. 

Andrea Hiott: I believe it because I actually went there once. I was actually writing about something with Volkswagen, but I was really interested in Ford because you know, Ford had inspired Volkswagen so much.

And I went and looked at all that stuff. So it's amazing that, you know, They actually did restore it, but yeah, it took four years and 

Peter DeLorenzo: almost a billion [00:13:00] dollars. 

Andrea Hiott: Whoa. 950 million. You're right. I think, gosh, 

Peter DeLorenzo: 950 million, almost a billion. 

Andrea Hiott: Yeah, exactly. 

Peter DeLorenzo: Over four years. And, you know, it was an incredible achievement.

But then of course, The Ford Motor Company operatives tried to say, well, this means Ford is on an upswing to, well, to me, they're two different things. And you know, what bill Ford did was commendable and it's great for the city. There's no correlation to the future of Ford Motor Company. I mean, that's still a separate deal.

And they think it's gonna bring in a lot of people to get excited about working at Ford, and I, I don't see it that way. I just think it's a, it's a wonderful thing for the community and the town, but Ford trying to piggyback on it and say this means it's going to be great tidings for Ford going forward isn't necessarily the way it's going to go.

Andrea Hiott: Yeah, that seems like [00:14:00] a good point to be making, because it seems like a similar misunderstanding or not connecting the dots in a way that you've written about in other senses where, I don't know, again, it's a bit like if we create this beautiful distraction, then no one will notice the other things or something.

It's not really connected to the actual problems. Maybe if you're trying to build community in a way, and that community was connected to the workplace and the cars in a sense, but these things still feel very disconnected somehow. 

Peter DeLorenzo: Yes, they are. I mean, it's a beautiful piece of the city that's been restored and it's going to serve the community going forward.

But as far as masking problems or fixing things. It's not necessarily so, but it's, it's better that it's been done than left in disrepair. 

Andrea Hiott: Yeah. And it is a beautiful building and it is a beautiful space. Do [00:15:00] you remember it when you were young? Was it still? 

Peter DeLorenzo: Not really. I went when I was young a couple of times, but in recent times it was It was used in a.

I forget which movie, one of the Transformer movies that was used as a, you know, a sign of disrepair. Yeah. 

Andrea Hiott: Well, that kind of speaks to the way Detroit's been portrayed in the past, what, I don't know, a couple, like 10 years or more. And you speak about that a bit too. And you talk about how people see this, the, the restoration of the Central Station almost as like.

as a revenge for people who've talked about the tragedy of Detroit for so long, or, I mean, we've all heard about it, that, that this was the kind of sign of America at its best, the beating heart, the, of American business, and that it's now become a tragedy where it's hopeless kind of sad place. And I hear you saying that a lot of people were pushing against that and saying that wasn't true.

And this is going to get, show them or [00:16:00] show the world, but you're saying actually it's always been true in this way that you talk about with the contradiction. 

Peter DeLorenzo: Yeah, it's always been true. I mean, the Ford CEO said, this is revenge for all the people who badmouthed the city. And I'm saying, no, not actually, it isn't.

You know, there was a Time magazine article about that. The disrepair of Detroit and, you know, the Ford CEO was pushing back on that article, except everything in that article is true and accurate at the time. I mean, let's, let's remember that Detroit was a community, a city with a population of over 2 million people at one point, and now the population of the city is somewhere around 500, 000.

And You know, it's always been a fight here. It's always been, yes, we're tied to the auto business and, you know, two of the biggest car companies in the world went bankrupt in [00:17:00] 2008 uh, GM and, and Chrysler. And it's always been a battle. The union movement, the movement started here.

And that's always been a battle, too. So this city is it's a tough city, it's a tough town. The people are resilient, but my latest column has said that, you know, the story doesn't end with the new train, the Central Station. And it doesn't end for the city. It doesn't mean that we're on the, on the way back or anything like that.

It's just, it's a constant grind. And it will continue. And we'll have some high points and some low points going ahead, and that's always been the case here. 

Andrea Hiott: It is a really special place in that way. There is a very distinct sadness, joy, this intertwined thing that we're sort of talking about. But it makes me think of another term you use, this true believers.

Could you talk about that a little bit? I think you talk about that more in your books.[00:18:00] 

Peter DeLorenzo: The people that keep this business going, I refer to as the true believers. The true believers at all the car companies are the men and women who are in design, uh, engineering, product development, production.

These people who come to work every day and try to do their best, and they really believe in what they're dealing and they make the difference. They've, they've allowed this business to survive in my estimation at its peak. lowest points. The true believers always kept going, and they're still doing that today.

They're a vital link in this business in this town, and they take pride in what they do, and they've saved these companies time and time again. 

Andrea Hiott: Yeah, this is, I think, what I am also very idealistic about, and when I think of [00:19:00] time in the 50s or, I mean, it's also portrayed a bit in the ads, which are the same ads that are leading to bad things, but again, we've already said, okay, everything's mixed up and confused, but the spirit of America as I You know, the, the way we think of ourselves as being the heroes in second world war, which is very connected to the automotive industry and everything that came out of that.

And the inspiration of the time and technology and the whole, the new, the new spirit and the worker. And then how, and you talk about this a lot too, but you can't take this out of the politics and out of the rise of the unions and, It seems like Detroit shows us how complicated this is and so I guess I'm saying I think about it when I think idealistic I think about these hard working good people 

and they're really doing it out of that spirit or that story of America or making a good product, you know, all of that, I guess, is that, do you still see that as associated with Detroit? And what do you think has corrupted or messed that up?

Peter DeLorenzo: Well, [00:20:00] one thing we should talk about is at the onset of World War II, Detroit was completely shut down and converted to wartime production, and basically created the arsenal of democracy.

Detroit was, has been the fabric of the country, especially with World War II and what happened at one point. I read this recently where a new bomber would come off the assembly line every minute at one point. I mean, just it was an all hands on deck effort for this community and for this industry.

And after the war was over, that's when the upper trajectory began, that's when, you know, the automobile basically settled the rest of the country and, and a lot of things came together. Is it the same today? No, it isn't. You know, Detroit, [00:21:00] believe it or not, is still one of the technical centers of the United States.

It's not just Silicon Valley. This is a, an area where and in fact, if we ever lose this, we're in deep trouble with the ability to make things. One thing, I, I was laughing when Elon Musk sort of stopped everything and said, you know, this is complicated. The automobile business is complicated. It's, it is one of the most complicated endeavors.

of man. It is an incredibly difficult, complicated thing to do. And when must sort of raised his hand and said, you know, this is This is tough stuff. I was just like, yeah, it has been for a long time, for decades. Is it quite the same? No, it'll never be quite the same. That was a different era, time in a different era.

And again, the country was on an upward trajectory. Now we've sort of [00:22:00] fallen into this sort of division and rancor that's sort of threatening to swallow everything. But the true believers, as you mentioned, they're keep, they're still pushing ahead and they're still making a difference. And they're true believers all over the world in the automobile business.

They keep their companies going in the face of very difficult challenges. 

Andrea Hiott: What do you think is motivating them? Do you think I mean, how does it, I guess you've seen it firsthand. I wonder what your parents were doing in World War II. And, but that, that was the generation, right? And then they, they really tried, they really built something.

And then it got corrupted in a way, or, or it just didn't, maybe something about the contradiction of the way we thought it would be if we. lived a certain way or we had a certain, we bought a certain amount of things or whatever. And the reality of it in the 60s, just everything got very [00:23:00] almost destructive.

And I'm not sure when the switch went over to the kind of the mindset that it's just about more and more numbers. And I would connect it more to the like technology and social media. One thing about your, Your work and your your blog is you've kept it very simple and you don't participate in all of that stuff.

About, you know, needing a certain look and a certain amount of likes and pandering and all of this. Pandering, I think, is the word maybe that you would use. I wonder when it went towards that, that it seems out of control now that where our values are and where our money goes, everything seems very confused.

Peter DeLorenzo: Yeah, well, initially Auto Extremist was going to be a car magazine with no advertising. I had the concept for it in 1986, and I didn't have to restart the internet. 

Andrea Hiott: Wow, because you started it in 1999, right? Yeah, June 1st, 

Peter DeLorenzo: 99, 25 years just celebrated. Well, when I [00:24:00] finally decided I could do it, the internet presented the opportunity for me to do it.

I mean, I I didn't have to go get financing for a print publication. And I was able to do that. So the internet's afforded all of us a lot of access, a lot of interest, a lot of understanding in the world, but it's also created massive problems. And, and I'm not saying anything new for people. I mean, the internet can be one of the ugliest places in the world.

And the reason I've, we've kept the website exactly how it is, is because it's an editorially focused site. I don't have a lot of bells and whistles and that's not meant to be. And it's for people who actually still like to read, which we're finding out a lot of people don't read much anymore. They'll read a few sentences and say, okay, I know about that.

Let's move on. I think it started to change about ten years ago. [00:25:00] It really, the internet started to swallow everything whole, and not in a good way. And I don't know, it's like, can you put the genie back in the bottle at this point? No. I don't know where it's going. I hope cooler heads prevail, and people start focusing on more of the fundamental things that make life better.

Enjoyable and pleasurable and with compassion and all that, all those things, but, you know, that's asking for a lot, it seems. 

Andrea Hiott: I think it's still there and people are hungry for it now as they were in the 50s or 60s. And that's why we do get a lot of disruption. But there is an inertia now like what you were describing, I think with the social media, now we look for a little.

We just can read, a certain amount of words and we try to get everything in that certain amount of words. And it feels like to talk about racing, it feels like we're all, everyone's always in a [00:26:00] race, whether to gather information or to gather likes or to gather, I'm not sure what yeah.

And. That's against that idealism that I, I feel maybe never totally existed, but that we all sort of want, which is that, which is, you speak to it too in your work, the believing in each other, the community, the, the stuff that came out of us in the best way when we were in the war, probably. of having to come together and do something together towards a common aim, all of that.

That seems very distracted or, or splintered, you know, through our technologies these days, in a way. 

Peter DeLorenzo: Well, it is splintered, and you ask about what motivates the true believers, and I actually think it's, they really love the automobile. And if they didn't, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing.

But I think they're enthusiasts, And the concept of the freedom of mobility, which I've written [00:27:00] about many times, is still powerful for people. I mean, they say well, kids don't want to drive today, these days, and they don't want to get their license. I don't agree with that, because as soon as, Young people get exposed to actual mobility on their own.

It changes something in them and they, they get a sense of understanding the power of mobility. It's, it's it's a powerful, powerful thing. And it's always interesting for me when I see people get exposed to it at a young age for the first time and you can see it in their eyes that things are changed for them.

So that's the true believers that work today in the business, they're still. Those young people who got turned on when they were young and they're still, still doing it, still turned on by it. 

Andrea Hiott: Yes, because I mean, we can get into the environmental issues and electric and all that, but let's just think about the car and the beauty of the car and of driving the experience of [00:28:00] driving of being able.

I mean, that's one of the things that was so wonderful after the war is that now you can actually move yourself. You can, there's a freedom there that, that you've written about too, that the freedom of it. This, this new feeling, this new visceral feeling of actually the driving process itself of what you do and the power of the car, the speed, but also that you can explore new worlds.

Often you're doing it together. There's a lot with what you might call true believers that, you know, of groups of people who come together to love cars or experience certain travel together, things like that. That is still really rich. I call the 

Peter DeLorenzo: automobile the mechanical conduit of our hopes and dreams.

Um, there's something about being able to get in your vehicle and And go and do you know, this is a vast country and some people don't really get a feel for it unless they get in their car and actually drive out west or in [00:29:00] the vastness and understand there's so many places to see that you don't see in an airplane.

So it, I think it's, it, it gets to people still, the automobile and the ability to move. Are there problems? Yes. Is the onset of the EVs going to change things? It already has. So, but I think the essence of the automobile and the freedom of mobility will always be there. 

Andrea Hiott: Yeah, I think it's still, people look at our movies and our artwork and our books and it's still this the dream is still often connected to moving yourself in this way.

I think it's also interesting to think of technology and like right now we have this virtual connection from different countries and that's wonderful. As you were saying, so many things have opened up, but we tend to think of that as a form of movement or [00:30:00] exploration or travel, and it's really different than like.

Because mental and physical are connected, so I don't know about you, if you took car trips when you were young, maybe you can tell me, but some of my memories from being young are these long car trips in this very American way, and How it changes your perception. First of all, you see the landscape change, which America, it's incredible.

If you drive from one side to the other, it's like, it's, it's almost like, what we, we can't get that out of virtual reality. And it's like, it's just incredible, but it changes how you, what, you know, is possible and what, how you feel. And did you have any trips like that? Like, 

Peter DeLorenzo: Yes. My most famous, well, I, During my brother's racing career, we traveled, we towed all over the country, but I took a trip in the summer of 1976 in a 1975 Porsche 911.

I drove from Detroit to LA and it was it was a memorable trip. The car didn't have air [00:31:00] conditioning which is fine. Not really, but it was, 

Andrea Hiott: it 

Peter DeLorenzo: was, It was a memorable trip. I'll never forget it. I mean, you got to see things that you just can't replicate in a video or a, you know, that's what I, I'm still stunned.

I shouldn't be, but you watch major sports events on television or like a golf tournament or a race or something. And people have their cameras out. I want to say, put your cameras down. Soak in where you are and what you're seeing and enjoy it. Because even when you play whatever you're photographing or your videos, it's not the same.

Be present. You know, I want to yell at people, be present in what you're doing. Enjoy what you're seeing and savor it. You'll remember that more than, you know, a 12 second video clip or, you know, it's [00:32:00] just, that's still a part of, of what's great about, you know, life. And so, and I encourage people, you know, young people to take road trips.

I mean, go, go do something like that and experience what the country has to offer. And that perspective is, is hard to come by, but when you have it, it changes things. 

Andrea Hiott: It does. And I think that's so powerful what you just said. It's so true. Sometimes I feel the same that. We almost have like this kind of superpower of just being present.

Because when you're in that state, it's such a, you can't even use words, I mean, it's just a better way of being in the world, and when, and when you reflect later over your life, those are the moments that stand out, not that you captured some kind of cool thing on a video that then a thousand people liked, or two thousand, or a million, or whoever, whatever, that, the, the thrill of that I understand.[00:33:00] 

But the thrill of that compared to some of the memories I think we're both thinking of now of, of our road trips, which aren't necessarily comfortable, by the way, but you, they do something to you that lasts. They, they give you something that lasts and there's a actual kind of embodied being there that, you know, changes you in a way that it's, it's, it's, I see what you mean by saying you want to say just, hey, put it down because it is like a, a gift that's just there, but somehow nobody sees it anymore, or it's harder to see, or harder, is it harder to just be present too, for people, do you think?

Peter DeLorenzo: I think it, it is. I think, I mean, again, technology has swallowed our Our society whole. And I think it's very difficult to be present. You almost have to, you have to make a point of it. And I wish more people would do that. 

Andrea Hiott: It also reminds me of something that's wonderful about [00:34:00] vehicles and cars and the communities around them is that you do still have these.

gatherings where people gather to just be together. I don't know, maybe I'm being still idealistic, but I've experienced that not, not so long ago. But to look at the cars, of course, or to show the motorcycles or, or whatever, but you're also really present there. Of course, people are still filming it, but.

Peter DeLorenzo: The, the cars and the bikes don't exist in a vacuum. They're all attached to stories. Of how they, you know, of what they mean to these people, and that the stories are the fabric of the community that keeps everyone engaged. So I don't, I don't trivialize car gatherings at all. I mean, or bike gatherings.

It's, it's important. And you find that people have this common. They don't have common stories, but the stories themselves are the link for everybody. 

Andrea Hiott: Yeah, those stories are the, [00:35:00] I think for the true believers, it's, it is about the beauty of an engine, for example, and the technology of it and the beauty of the design of a car and all that.

But it doesn't necessarily have to be that particular kind of engine or car or whatever. It's the narrative of that and the connection that brings you with other people. The connection, it opens with you and yourself, you know, when you have to learn how to fix it, or when you're on a road trip, or there's something about that journey that it offers that I think is the important thing.

But as we're talking, you know, I feel a little guilty too, cause here I am saying how wonderful it is to drive your car and meet everyone, take road trips. And of course, at the same time, I'm thinking we have environmental challenges now. And like, I, it makes me sad. I don't know how to hold all that stuff together in the right way.

Peter DeLorenzo: Yeah, I agree. It's a difficult time. I mean, I, I'm [00:36:00] extremely worried about the climate and mankind's effect on it and everyone uh, the automobiles, you know, the target. And uh even though the production of electricity is a difficult question in itself. The use of raw materials and things to assemble batteries.

It's, it's difficult. I, I, in some ways, I think we're changing one difficult question for another difficult question. My attitude on EVs is I think for around town, they make. Extraordinary sense but for trips, we're still not there yet. And I mean, they could build 50, 000 chargers a year from now until for the next 30 years, and we still wouldn't have enough chargers and we'll technically technology accelerate.

Of course, we'll, we have better batteries, [00:37:00] more environmentally friendly. Batteries more environmentally friendly, compassionate ways to build these vehicles. Yes, but there is something about an internal combustion engine. The feel the vibration, the sound that will never be replicated. And so, unfortunately, I think we're going to have I.

C. E. vehicles for a long time to come, but it's going to be a constant wrestling with the climate change issue as it should be. I mean, we need to do something on a global scale, and I think some countries are embracing it and others are just not. But you already know, so it's, it's, it's difficult. 

Andrea Hiott: Yeah, it is difficult and it's hard to look at it honestly, especially when you love all the things that you know are going to have to change.

And it's not only cars. It's just, [00:38:00] again, I try to be, I, I try not to be idealistic, but I am and thinking that we can find a way if, if we, if we understood what was really important, which is the things we've been talking about. I think all of those can still exist in cars and motoring. Whether it's electric or hydrogen or I see probably a little bit of both in very different combinations is probably more what we need to think about or something.

I don't know what you think. Yeah, we're going to have 

Peter DeLorenzo: a kaleidoscope of of power for our vehicles. I've been a proponent for hydrogen for a long time, but there are challenges, but there are some things about it that offer alternatives. And I think EVs are just one part of the equation. I think this, this flip a switch and we're all going to be driving EVs, it's not going to happen.

They'll be part of a bigger picture of propulsion that we'll have going forward. 

Andrea Hiott: Yes, and as you said, if we [00:39:00] did flip the switch and everything went electric, unless we come up with some new ways of, Generating that because we're still generating finding energy and we're still there's batteries and there's all this there's a you know, it's all connected to Using resources so we still need other ways to think about it, too Of course, there are some ways but yeah, it's it's not an easy answer No matter which it tends to the debate tends to get either or it's either I see or electric or hydrogen But okay, maybe it's all of them in different ways It's different uses of energy or,

Peter DeLorenzo: yeah. I believe it's, it's all of the above. And unfortunately the political class tends to think we'll just flip the switch and it's either or, and we'll fix that and then we'll move on. It's, this situation isn't one of those things. Well, it never is really for politicians. They always think we can flip the switch and fix things.

This is going to be a long [00:40:00] term challenge. 

Andrea Hiott: Yes, and I guess it's also hard because our priorities and our values and kind of level of corruption or whatever is, is a bit different because I think a lot of just everyday people, true believers, you might say, but even if we extend that outside of the car industry, but people who really, they want to enjoy their life, they love their car for visceral reasons that maybe They would be willing to change how they get that feeling.

It's just that we have the politics and the certain sort of structures now that are dependent on that either or framework and that fighting and that, yeah, I don't know. I mean, in all your time in Detroit, have you seen a hopeful moment where I'm sure you've seen many, but is it the true believers that will help us reorient those bigger structures?

Like, where do you see, is it a top down thing? Is it a [00:41:00] bottom up? In Detroit, in your experience, where have you seen positive change happen? 

Peter DeLorenzo: Well, there, there are positives all the time, and true believers are from the ground up to the top down. I mean, many of the people running these companies are true believers themselves are enthusiasts.

So it, it's really the true believers are at every level and there's hope for optimism around here all the time. Their discoveries. Making progress. They're inventing things all the time. So it's one thing that the business does not is not stagnant changes happening all the time. So that's when I say we will, they will discover new things that new ways of doing batteries, new ways of generating electricity.

So that will come, [00:42:00] I think, fast and furious. I think back of when the transition from horses to the automobile happened. I mean, everyone said, well, you have gasoline on board, they're rolling bombs, they're going to destroy, blow up cities and maim people and, you know, there were a lot of hammering going on.

And I think then technology started and improved. So we're at that point again. Well, I miss the sound and the visceral thrill of an internal combustion engine, of course. There's no, there's no synthetic sound that they're developing for EVs that are going to replace that. But, they'll be around for a long time.

It's just the cocktail of the propulsion will be many faceted. And we'll, I think we'll progress and we'll figure it out. There's going to be some difficult times, but I retain a sense of optimism. [00:43:00] 

Andrea Hiott: It sounds like you're hopeful because you believe in people and the goodness of people, yeah, ultimately, which is probably what frustrates you so much about the other stuff.

Peter DeLorenzo: Yeah. I think that the good intention of people and the pure talent and the vision And I think that will propel us forward, not just the auto business, but hopefully as a society. 

Andrea Hiott: I agree. And it's moving to hear that from you. We already have gone a long time here, but I, I wanted, you know, you were born into this golden age of Detroit.

And then I know you eventually went into advertising and then you've had a whole career very much tied up with this business. And then you started. Auto extremists in 1999, and it's like this high octane truth.

There's this really sharp edge of saying what other people don't say, the elephant in the room speaking straight, even the design and everything, it's just very straight and I won't say [00:44:00] it's, it's not, it's, it's hopeful, but it's also criticizing or pointing out Again, what needs to be pointed out.

So I don't know maybe you can tell me a little bit of what what motivated that were you Because you you're you're showing me here how much you do believe in people and that you actually are hopeful Was that out of that place to I? 

Peter DeLorenzo: first Of course, I grew up in it and then I was in the advertising and marketing field for a long time, like 22 years.

And I saw how, I saw Detroit begin its downward spiral and it, it aggravated the hell out of me. So, Did 

Andrea Hiott: it aggravate you in a similar way to how you want to tell people to put their phones down now? Was it this kind of, like, you could see how it could be? Yeah, well, 

Peter DeLorenzo: I just, I knew Detroit, if they didn't fix things and be better, they wouldn't survive.

And since I was immersed in the business, and I [00:45:00] knew the mindset here, I could comment on it, and I made a point of, you know, I talk about things that other journalists will only talk about in the bar or deep background, and they're, oh, you can't write about it, but they're, of course, they're all talking about it.

The point about extremists is, We talk about stuff that people are talking about, but we don't hide behind anything or sugarcoat anything. And when it, when it first arrived on the scene, it was mind blowing. And I came across a list of media. And so I, we did an email blast. The morning the first issue was up saying the subject line was, Wake up, you're going to read something you haven't ever read before.

And the word of mouth established was, was tremendous. And you know, again, I wrote about things that people didn't want [00:46:00] you to write about necessarily. I mean, especially the PR operatives at the companies would just cringe when a new issue was coming out, because they weren't sure what I was going to write about.

But I've had more than one CEO tell me this is almost a verbatim. He said, you know, you pissed me off, but everything you write about is true. So, and they have tremendous respect for that. 

Andrea Hiott: I think one gets the sense of that. You're not just trying to be mean or, you know, you're not, it's not this kind of media where you just say something sensational to say it.

It's really, It's very heartfelt and at the same time, yeah, it's got that, that edge I almost, I wonder if you think of your, like, it's a, it's a service that you're doing, in a sense. Do you think of it like that? Or, I mean, people might use terms like whistleblower or something, but that's wrong.

But there's something in there of that because you could have. You probably have had to deal with a lot of people wanting you to be quiet or [00:47:00] pushing back against you know, I, 

Peter DeLorenzo: we get hate mail all the time and the company, PR chiefs and CEOs want me to be quiet and, but again, ultimately no one else has been doing it.

I've had lots of imitators, but they've fallen away. I don't know if it's a service, it's just, I write what I know and I, I write what I do. I believe in my gut about this business is pretty accurate most of the time, so. 

Andrea Hiott: And you're also always willing to say, Oh, well, you know, I'm changing, this is changing a bit.

Or I remember when you got, you got an electric car not too long ago, right? And that seemed like a, a bit of a change. I got a 

Peter DeLorenzo: Chevy Bolt because I didn't want to write about EVs without knowing about them. And I enjoyed it. I mean, I thought it was a fine car. But I go through cars a lot. And I in front of a friend took over the lease on it because they needed something and I enjoyed it.

[00:48:00] It was a fun car and I can see why people like EVs, especially, you know, if, if you do, if you're driving is confined to the urban environment and you have access to charging, that's great. But you know, a lot of people live in apartments and things like that, and they don't have access to charge. When they do find a charger.

50 50 chance it's not operating, right? So we have a long way to go there, but the efficacy of EVs is strong and, and for certain uses yeah, I believe in them. 

Andrea Hiott: How have you stayed persistent, consistent, authentic, not selling out, so to speak, or, I don't know, it's, you worked in advertising a long time, and I've studied and written about advertising, and it's, it's a really powerful space but it can also be very, very, razorblady [00:49:00] in terms of not, you know, you learn how to manipulate in a sense, if you want to use it that way.

So yeah, how have you negotiated that? Was it through just going straight to the truth that kind of helped you not do that or? 

Peter DeLorenzo: Well, I, I have a high capacity for focus and I have an inner drive and I could have stopped this a long time ago, but it's, it's, It's become my life's work. And I use the term focused consistency all the time for myself.

It's not easy some weeks to, I wake up usually at 3 a. m. to write and it's not easy. But I, you know, I just feel that it's, I don't think my writing is stale. I don't think my writing sounds old. I don't think my writing, my, [00:50:00] I don't phone it in. So it's just something I, that's deep within me to keep going.

Andrea Hiott: It's a lot of work too, cause you have to keep up with a lot of things and you know, you have people pushing back and so on, but it's good that you feel that motivation. And I do think, I can't, I think you must know, a lot of people know that have talked to me about you or that mentioned you, that there is something.

Like a service that you've done over the past, how many years has it been? You said 20 

Peter DeLorenzo: 25 years this past June 1st. 

Andrea Hiott: Just, yeah, so congratulations. So for 25 years, like what, can you imagine what if you hadn't been doing that? You 

Peter DeLorenzo: know, when I left advertising, I, I left with the notion that I didn't want to wake up three years or five years from now and not doing, not taking a, a leap and doing this.

Yeah. I felt I had something to say, [00:51:00] and I felt that I had a perspective that few had. In other words, I grew up in the heyday of the business, and then I operated in the trenches of the business, and I just felt that I had something to say that needed to be heard. And I felt that if I didn't do it, I didn't want to wake up, like I said, three years or five years from then.

wishing I had. So I just took a leap and did it. And I won't sugarcoat it. It's been difficult at times. 

Andrea Hiott: Well, I'm glad that you did it. And I would say most of us, when we have that feeling, it might be part of why we're here. You know, I won't get mystical or anything, but you can't see all of the ways in which it matters.

to all the connections around it, but I, I do, I do really feel like when you have that feeling that you just described, that you're going to regret it if you don't go with it, even if it's going to be hard, you know? 

Peter DeLorenzo: Yes. I mean, I [00:52:00] don't, I think it'd be a real shame to get later in life and be sitting there what, you know, woulda, coulda, shoulda.

That's just not the way to live. 

Andrea Hiott: That's, yeah. And I can't imagine, it's, it's weird to think that there wasn't an auto exchange. Like if all this writing hadn't taken place, I find it, it would, things would have gone a different way. So I think it's, it's, it's made, it's changed the paths and the ways of Detroit and all that Detroit is.

Peter DeLorenzo: I say this and I don't think too many journalists like to hear it, but I fundamentally changed the way the business was covered. We noticed it right away about a year into Out Extremist, the tone and tenor of some of the coverage by the mainstream auto journalists started to get harder edged and more critical.

And so I was glad to spur that on. Do 

Andrea Hiott: you ever talk to museums? I don't know who. [00:53:00] Barbara, or one of the auto museums there about like an archive of putting it in an archive or something like that? 

Peter DeLorenzo: No, my, my longtime editor Janice says the auto extremist library should be a serious thing, but I, no, I haven't talked to anyone about it.

Andrea Hiott: I hope you do, I mean, or she does, or somebody does, because it's, it is, you know, online and that's where it should be, but it also seems like, you know, you'd want to be able to pull it up at one of these, as a writer and someone who does research, you'd want this in a hundred years, I will, the me that might be writing about something in a hundred years, if I, if I'm that person, would want to go to one of these museums or archives and have that.

It's important. So I hope you, You put it in there somewhere or somebody does. That's 

Peter DeLorenzo: nice to hear. I should do that. 

Andrea Hiott: Yeah. So we already had our hour, but I want to know, just to end it this is called forever [00:54:00] motoring. So we've talked a lot about the changes that are coming and that have to take place, whether there are personal inner desires about what transportation is or the modes and methods.

But when you hear that word forever motoring, I guess, like, from these different angles, what motoring's meant for you in your life? Because your life's very tied to it. That kind of forever for you, and how do you see it, you know, maybe for generations to come? What does it, what do you think about when you hear that 

Peter DeLorenzo: word?

Well, like I've covered the freedom and mobility is a powerful thing. I think it's always going to be present. It'll be different for future generations, but the ability to go and do and experience things are going to stay with us. And so forever motoring is it's almost a frame of mind too.

It's a, it's a call to action for yourself to go experience things, experience life that's not so predictable or confined to a screen. And I [00:55:00] think the power of that forever motoring will be with us. Hopefully forever. 

Andrea Hiott: That's beautiful. Thank you, Peter. Thank you for that. And thanks for the work you do.

And I wish you good luck with it all. Yeah. All right. 

Peter DeLorenzo: Okay. Thanks.